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Bishop asks why people have stopped going to church
A CAMPAIGN has been launched by the new Bishop of Oxford to bring people in the Thames Valley area back to church.
The Rt Reverend John Pritchard, who took on his new role in June, is launching the "Tell Bishop John" campaign to find out why churchgoers have stopped attending mass.
Reverend Pritchard, who covers the south Bucks area, is also hoping to find out what might get people interested in returning to the church as well and will tie in with "back to Church Sunday", to be held on September 30.
On Back to Church Sunday churchgoers across Oxfordshire, Berkshire and Buckinghamshire will be inviting friends and neighbours to come to church with them and see what they are missing. Last year around 600 people came back to church in the Berkshire area, thanks to the initiative.
Bishop John said: "We know people fall out of the habit of coming to church for all sorts of reasons, sometimes simply because they move house or their family circumstances change.
"A bereavement, for example, can leave someone feeling uncomfortable about coming on their own. Sometimes people are simply embarrassed because they've missed a few Sundays.
"Whatever the reason, I'd like to try and understand - and to say they are always welcome."
He added: "Bishop John says: "I hope to hear from as many people as possible, whatever their story. I want to try and find out how we can make our churches as welcoming as possible to all comers, old and new, young and old."
People can contact Bishop John by visiting the website www.tellbishopjohn.com or by writing to Tell Bishop John' at Church House, North Hinksey Lane, Oxford OX2 0NB.
The closing date for contributions is September 21. BBC broadcaster, Canon David Winter, will then quiz Bishop John about what he has learned in an interview to be available by podcast on the diocesan website the following week.
10:55am Tuesday 4th September 2007
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CommentPosted by: phisch21, Chalfonts on 11:14am Tue 4 Sep 07
I haven't stopped attending mass. I have never attended in the first place. Weekends are far too precious to waste a quarter of it in a church.
I haven't stopped attending mass. I have never attended in the first place. Weekends are far too precious to waste a quarter of it in a church.
Posted by: Bernard, HW on 11:26am Tue 4 Sep 07
The church isnt the centre of the community that it used to be.
Since it was proven that members of the clergy were also guilty of the same failings as the rest of us such as drinking and womanising, i think a lot of the faith in the church has been lost.
There was a note on Sky news last night saying that 80% of the populus now think that religion actually does more harm than good. Afraid to say i sort of agree !
The church isnt the centre of the community that it used to be.
Since it was proven that members of the clergy were also guilty of the same failings as the rest of us such as drinking and womanising, i think a lot of the faith in the church has been lost.
There was a note on Sky news last night saying that 80% of the populus now think that religion actually does more harm than good. Afraid to say i sort of agree !
Posted by: tom, marlow on 11:51am Tue 4 Sep 07
Its a shame really that the church has to dilute a quite reasonable set of cultural and social values with a whole lot of superstition and deluded nonsense.
Why cant they just admit that there are far more plausible explanations for life, the universe and everything than that it is the work of some old guy with a big beard up in the sky. They have a lot of sensible stuff to say about how we might live our lives more socially and peacefully that gets dismissed if they expect us to beleive in fairies.
I went to a humanist funeral quite recently and came away feeling sad but calm. Every time I've been to a church funeral its just made me angry.
Its a shame really that the church has to dilute a quite reasonable set of cultural and social values with a whole lot of superstition and deluded nonsense.
Why cant they just admit that there are far more plausible explanations for life, the universe and everything than that it is the work of some old guy with a big beard up in the sky. They have a lot of sensible stuff to say about how we might live our lives more socially and peacefully that gets dismissed if they expect us to beleive in fairies.
I went to a humanist funeral quite recently and came away feeling sad but calm. Every time I've been to a church funeral its just made me angry.
Posted by: slacker, Flackwell on 12:23pm Tue 4 Sep 07
Perhaps people have finally realised that "God" cannot give them the answers they want and that science is more reliable.
If the church want to know why people are not visiting maybe they should stop and look at themselves instead of the public.
Perhaps people have finally realised that "God" cannot give them the answers they want and that science is more reliable.
If the church want to know why people are not visiting maybe they should stop and look at themselves instead of the public.
Posted by: Bernard, HW on 12:47pm Tue 4 Sep 07
God has never been able to give the answer. The whole concept of religion is flawed in so far as god helps those who helps themselves. Translated as "God" wont help you anyway.
All religion is based on myths and reports written up to hundreds of years after the supposed event. How anyone can believe in this sort of thing, in this day and age, is beyond me.
The only plausible excuse is that people need something to believe in for when they die. Why people cant accept that you become part of the circle of nature by nutrifying the earth when you die i dont know.
Not even goign to start on anything outside Christianity cos it isnt pretty !
God has never been able to give the answer. The whole concept of religion is flawed in so far as god helps those who helps themselves. Translated as "God" wont help you anyway.
All religion is based on myths and reports written up to hundreds of years after the supposed event. How anyone can believe in this sort of thing, in this day and age, is beyond me.
The only plausible excuse is that people need something to believe in for when they die. Why people cant accept that you become part of the circle of nature by nutrifying the earth when you die i dont know.
Not even goign to start on anything outside Christianity cos it isnt pretty !
Posted by: FH, Amersham on 1:51pm Tue 4 Sep 07
[quote]Its a shame really that the church has to dilute a quite reasonable set of cultural and social values with a whole lot of superstition and deluded nonsense. Why cant they just admit that there are far more plausible explanations for life, the universe and everything [/quote]
I'm not a believer, but nevertheless, if the church adopted that approach, it wouldn't be a church, would it? If you don't like the superstition, just stay away, as I do.
Its a shame really that the church has to dilute a quite reasonable set of cultural and social values with a whole lot of superstition and deluded nonsense. Why cant they just admit that there are far more plausible explanations for life, the universe and everything
I'm not a believer, but nevertheless, if the church adopted that approach, it wouldn't be a church, would it? If you don't like the superstition, just stay away, as I do.
Posted by: Richard McCoull, Reading on 5:26pm Tue 4 Sep 07
People need genuine boundaries to work within. There aren't any in the UK today because successive governments have removed them and replaced them with 'my right' to do as I will. The church watched it happen over the last 50 years without challenge. Currently there is a vacuum in peoples lives and it getting filled with trash. Come on Bishop John, you must already know the answer - preach the gospel of Jesus. People will flock back to church.It's not rocket science!
Richard - Reading.
People need genuine boundaries to work within. There aren't any in the UK today because successive governments have removed them and replaced them with 'my right' to do as I will. The church watched it happen over the last 50 years without challenge. Currently there is a vacuum in peoples lives and it getting filled with trash. Come on Bishop John, you must already know the answer - preach the gospel of Jesus. People will flock back to church.It's not rocket science!
Richard - Reading.
Posted by: tom, marlow on 5:35pm Tue 4 Sep 07
[quote] If you don't like the superstition, just stay away, as I do[/quote]
Exactly why I dont go near the places, you don't and I suspect a lot of other people too.
I dont suppose this is what the Bishop wants to hear, but there you have it. I wonder if he ever reads what people write on here :-)
Problem I have is most of the people I know that are practicing Christians are really nice people and contribute a lot to making our society a better place to live in (Sorry that sounds corny, but I cant think of a better way to express it). I'm sure that is true for many people of other religious beliefs
I find it frustrating and rather sad in a way that they have to carry all this additional baggage. It damages credibility.
If you don't like the superstition, just stay away, as I do
Exactly why I dont go near the places, you don't and I suspect a lot of other people too.
I dont suppose this is what the Bishop wants to hear, but there you have it. I wonder if he ever reads what people write on here :-)
Problem I have is most of the people I know that are practicing Christians are really nice people and contribute a lot to making our society a better place to live in (Sorry that sounds corny, but I cant think of a better way to express it). I'm sure that is true for many people of other religious beliefs
I find it frustrating and rather sad in a way that they have to carry all this additional baggage. It damages credibility.
Posted by: gillyflower1951, Long Hanborough on 7:34pm Tue 4 Sep 07
I had a very strong faith, but when things started to go wrong for me ie ; marriage break-up, family illness, I went to pieces. Now I feel that I can't go back because I was so weak and didn't trust God when I needed him the most.
I had a very strong faith, but when things started to go wrong for me ie ; marriage break-up, family illness, I went to pieces. Now I feel that I can't go back because I was so weak and didn't trust God when I needed him the most.
Posted by: somewhereelse, home on 2:34pm Wed 5 Sep 07
i too beleive that religion is the cause of all wars there no firm evidence that there a god various religions all worship an idol of some sort if there is a god who's is the right one
i too beleive that religion is the cause of all wars there no firm evidence that there a god various religions all worship an idol of some sort if there is a god who's is the right one
Posted by: kerlmann, West Wycombe on 2:28pm Fri 7 Sep 07
[quote][bold]tom[/bold] wrote:
Its a shame really that the church has to dilute a quite reasonable set of cultural and social values with a whole lot of superstition and deluded nonsense. Why cant they just admit that there are far more plausible explanations for life, the universe and everything than that it is the work of some old guy with a big beard up in the sky. They have a lot of sensible stuff to say about how we might live our lives more socially and peacefully that gets dismissed if they expect us to beleive in fairies. I went to a humanist funeral quite recently and came away feeling sad but calm. Every time I've been to a church funeral its just made me angry.[/quote] Tom - the church isn't diluting values with superstition!! The reason the church corporate first started was to serve people who wanted to worship and know more about God - the values are integral with Christianity. You may not be aware that every law in this land has its roots in one of the ten commandments (fact).
Like all of us, church ministers are humans and capable of doing wrong. Whilst they may do it less frequently than the rest of us (on average!), it certainly doesn't help the cause when the naughty ones are rightly made an example of by the media.
As for church funerals, I'm puzzled as to why they make you feel sad? Everyone dies an earthly death eventually, and God doesn't control our lives - he gave us the gift of free will to do whatever we like (he could have created us like robots instead). We also live a vulnerable and unpredictable world.
For those who have believed, church funerals should be a comforting celebration to those in attendance. A humanist funeral is so completely final - it marks the end of someone's very EXISTENCE, no hope beyond that. Just imagine if your existence on earth was merely the nibbles before the starter before the grandest banquet you've ever had? The concept of a lasting 'soul' is internally very powerful and one which many people are intrigued to know more about.
Is there a religious chatboard on this site anywhere?? ;-)
tom wrote:
Its a shame really that the church has to dilute a quite reasonable set of cultural and social values with a whole lot of superstition and deluded nonsense. Why cant they just admit that there are far more plausible explanations for life, the universe and everything than that it is the work of some old guy with a big beard up in the sky. They have a lot of sensible stuff to say about how we might live our lives more socially and peacefully that gets dismissed if they expect us to beleive in fairies. I went to a humanist funeral quite recently and came away feeling sad but calm. Every time I've been to a church funeral its just made me angry.
Tom - the church isn't diluting values with superstition!! The reason the church corporate first started was to serve people who wanted to worship and know more about God - the values are integral with Christianity. You may not be aware that every law in this land has its roots in one of the ten commandments (fact).
Like all of us, church ministers are humans and capable of doing wrong. Whilst they may do it less frequently than the rest of us (on average!), it certainly doesn't help the cause when the naughty ones are rightly made an example of by the media.
As for church funerals, I'm puzzled as to why they make you feel sad? Everyone dies an earthly death eventually, and God doesn't control our lives - he gave us the gift of free will to do whatever we like (he could have created us like robots instead). We also live a vulnerable and unpredictable world.
For those who have believed, church funerals should be a comforting celebration to those in attendance. A humanist funeral is so completely final - it marks the end of someone's very EXISTENCE, no hope beyond that. Just imagine if your existence on earth was merely the nibbles before the starter before the grandest banquet you've ever had? The concept of a lasting 'soul' is internally very powerful and one which many people are intrigued to know more about.
Is there a religious chatboard on this site anywhere?? ;-)
Posted by: tom, marlow on 10:00am Sun 9 Sep 07
I didnt say church funerals made me sad, I said they make me angry.
Because they make claims like...
[quote]Just imagine if your existence on earth was merely the nibbles before the starter before the grandest banquet you've ever had?[/quote]
which are quite unsubstantiated (or for that matter unsubstantiatable). People are sad enough at such a time. Why lie to them?
Ok I know there are good intentions about making people feel that they havent really lost whoever, but it doesnt really work. I much prefer to stick to celebrating someone's life and achievements, remind ourselves of what they have left behind - not some nonsense about some stuff that we all know, deep down, isnt really going to happen.
I didnt say church funerals made me sad, I said they make me angry.
Because they make claims like...
Just imagine if your existence on earth was merely the nibbles before the starter before the grandest banquet you've ever had?
which are quite unsubstantiated (or for that matter unsubstantiatable). People are sad enough at such a time. Why lie to them?
Ok I know there are good intentions about making people feel that they havent really lost whoever, but it doesnt really work. I much prefer to stick to celebrating someone's life and achievements, remind ourselves of what they have left behind - not some nonsense about some stuff that we all know, deep down, isnt really going to happen.
Posted by: kerlmann on 1:34pm Mon 10 Sep 07
OK - I'm not going to force my views on anyone, but how do you KNOW deep down that this isn't really going to happen?? No-one has got any concrete evidence either way of course, but I know which horse I'd prefer to back. What exactly have you got to lose in the long-term??
There are 2.1bn Christians globally, (compared to 1.1bn atheists/secularists
) - are you telling me they're all totally misguided? (Have a look here: http://www.theregist
er.com/2006/10/06/th
e_odd_body_religion/
)
By the way, I totally agree with you that funerals - of whatever type - should be a chance to reflect on the good in someone's life, no question about that. It's nice to look forward as well though, which is the hope that ALL religions hold to.
OK - I'm not going to force my views on anyone, but how do you KNOW deep down that this isn't really going to happen?? No-one has got any concrete evidence either way of course, but I know which horse I'd prefer to back. What exactly have you got to lose in the long-term??
There are 2.1bn Christians globally, (compared to 1.1bn atheists/secularists
) - are you telling me they're all totally misguided? (Have a look here: http://www.theregist
er.com/2006/10/06/th
e_odd_body_religion/
)
By the way, I totally agree with you that funerals - of whatever type - should be a chance to reflect on the good in someone's life, no question about that. It's nice to look forward as well though, which is the hope that ALL religions hold to.
Posted by: Rozanne, Beaconsfield on 4:52pm Thu 13 Sep 07
If we serve on a jury, we are not allowed to convict an accused simply by 'believing' he/she is guilty. There must be evidence and proof 'beyond all reasonable doubt'. Is it therefore not ludicrous that the clergy expect us,intelligent people, to 'believe blindly' in a God without a shred of proof or evidence? Sorry, but churches simply defy logic and continue to brandish a fairy tale which the human race is slowly growing out of, hence the drop off in attendance.
If we serve on a jury, we are not allowed to convict an accused simply by 'believing' he/she is guilty. There must be evidence and proof 'beyond all reasonable doubt'. Is it therefore not ludicrous that the clergy expect us,intelligent people, to 'believe blindly' in a God without a shred of proof or evidence? Sorry, but churches simply defy logic and continue to brandish a fairy tale which the human race is slowly growing out of, hence the drop off in attendance.
Posted by: kerlmann on 1:54pm Fri 21 Sep 07
The UK is one of the few countries globally where church attendance is in decline (albeit only slight). There's a church in S.Korea for example with over 1 million members (count 'em!).
"Believing blindly" is where faith comes in - if it was a cut and dried case, there would be no need for faith in God. God demands that we seek him out and put our complete trust in him. When you get on board an aeroplane, how often do you see the captain? You might hear a voice claiming to be him - but that could be recorded for all we know! You put your faith in the airline that the pilot is qualified, fit and able to fly the plane, and that the engineers have checked the plane sufficiently prior to take-off. You don't insist on seeing verification of all this before you fly, nor evidence that people are who they claim to be, so it is with our personal beliefs.
It's also not quite true to say that there's not "a shred of proof or evidence" for God. Apart from 2.1bn global followers, the existence of Christ himself is strong testament. Secular and religious historians alike are in no doubt that this man existed c.2,000 years ago, what is less certain is whether he was the Son of God or not. But if he were a fraud, what was his motivation? He could have opted out at any time, but went through with it and paid the ultimate price - you couldn't even accuse him of glory-seeking.
So a "fairy tale" or the "greatest story ever told"? There lies the debate... :¬)
The UK is one of the few countries globally where church attendance is in decline (albeit only slight). There's a church in S.Korea for example with over 1 million members (count 'em!).
"Believing blindly" is where faith comes in - if it was a cut and dried case, there would be no need for faith in God. God demands that we seek him out and put our complete trust in him. When you get on board an aeroplane, how often do you see the captain? You might hear a voice claiming to be him - but that could be recorded for all we know! You put your faith in the airline that the pilot is qualified, fit and able to fly the plane, and that the engineers have checked the plane sufficiently prior to take-off. You don't insist on seeing verification of all this before you fly, nor evidence that people are who they claim to be, so it is with our personal beliefs.
It's also not quite true to say that there's not "a shred of proof or evidence" for God. Apart from 2.1bn global followers, the existence of Christ himself is strong testament. Secular and religious historians alike are in no doubt that this man existed c.2,000 years ago, what is less certain is whether he was the Son of God or not. But if he were a fraud, what was his motivation? He could have opted out at any time, but went through with it and paid the ultimate price - you couldn't even accuse him of glory-seeking.
So a "fairy tale" or the "greatest story ever told"? There lies the debate... :¬)
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